No. I’m sorry but this is absolutely not true. Thor never really protected Loki from anything or anyone. Thor spent the entirety of the first movie treating Loki like his personal servant- “Know your place, brother.” -Those are not the words of someone who views his brother as an equal or someone he’s protecting. He dragged Loki into Jotunheim (even if Loki DID bring the Jotnar into Asgard, Thor didn’t know it and Loki tried to talk him out of going).
In Avengers, Thor spent the entire time manhandling Loki and threatening him. NEVER ONCE did he ask Loki if HE NEEDED HELP. NOT. ONE. DAMN. TIME. The closest he came to asking what had happened was- “Who controls the would-be king?”
Then in TTDW, Loki was only allowed out of prison because Thor couldn’t do the job himself. And Thor never realized that the reason Loki faked his death was to get out of going back to the dungeons.
Thor doesn’t deserve Loki’s life. Loki deserves to have HIS OWN LIFE without the expectations and constraints that have been placed upon him for so long by Thor and Odin.
Fight me.
Fight us.
“No. I’m sorry but this is absolutely not true. Thor never really protected Loki from anything or anyone.”
THIS to infinity.
I would echo what @starrynightfantasies has said here. Thor showed no concern for Loki during the first Thor film, or during the first Avengers film, or even during The Dark World. Thor broke Loki out of prison out of self interest. He fully intended to put him right back in that cell, as soon as he no longer needed him.
I would argue that we don’t know why Loki faked his death -because we haven’t been told explicitly. Most likely because that was never the ending the writers intended for TDW, and it was only changed later on.
Loki is not indebted to anyone. If anything, Thor is indebted to him. Without Loki’s intervention at the end of Ragnarok, there would have been no survivors. Without Loki’s intervention at the end of TDW, Jane and possibly Thor, would both be dead.
These are lovely gifs though. So I don’t want you to think this is a commentary on your gif making skills.
ALL OF THIS
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It’s worth noting too that on Jotunheim, Thor started the fight that put his friends in grave danger but it was Loki who then saved their lives.
Loki saved at least Sif and Fandral’s lives (I forget if there were any others, it’s been a while) but Thor was too busy claiming “glory” or some such shit to have his friend’s backs during the battle.
I don’t understand why people assume Loki stripped Odin of his powers. Odin says he broke Loki’s spell. What did he break it with if not his own magic? The power of a senior bingo night win? Pudding? His new friend Martha’s dentures? The weight of the enormous expense senior care in the United States is?
And then he just dicks about on Midgard, waiting to die, instead of utilizing Strange’s magic or his own to go back to Asgard. Strange literally says that he chose to stay put. CHOSE. That’s… not on Loki. Why do people continue to say Loki’s in any way at fault for Ragnarok? *buries head in hands*
It is from Thor’s line where he accuses Loki of stripping Odin’s power. Now that doesn’t just mean magical power. But his power as King of the 9 realms. The power that comes from him being king. Because Loki did take that power for himself.
Now of course Odin was able to eventually fight Loki’s spell with his own magicalliness. I’m not disputing that. I’m just saying that yes Loki took Odin’s kingly ruling power. ETC.
Yes, that’s true, Loki took Odin’s political authority over the realms, and he possessed Gungnir, all Odin’s stolen relics, and Odin’s armies. In that sense he did usurp some of Odin’s power. However, I was more disputing the idea that Loki’s responsible for Odin’s death, Hela’s return, the subsequent atrocities Hela committed, and Asgard’s destruction (beyond in the literal sense that he placed Surtur’s skull in the Eternal Flame), rather than claiming Loki did nothing to Odin. In other words, that Loki took Odin’s magic, and therefore caused the events of the film. I take issue with people selectively deciding that whatever Loki did must have made Odin deteriorate rapidly (by turning him human), and the further implication that if Odin had a bit more time he’d have been proactive about preparing for Hela, when that’s obviously not the case because he decides to wait for Thor and Loki to find him and tells Strange he’s just going to hang out. It’s evident that many of Odin’s powers remain firmly in his possession (for instance, he’s still holding Hela at bay during his time on Midgard), so he cannot be human, and that he has every opportunity to do something besides wait. But he does nothing.
There’s plenty people can condemn Loki for. I don’t understand why he’s got to be responsible for Odin and Hela’s bad choices/crimes, too. Thor does blame him for it all in a moment where he’s very upset, and that’s completely understandable. I just wish people didn’t take it as gospel when it’s not accurate given the information we have (and I wish that the film let Loki challenge Thor’s statements or, at least, express obvious exasperation).
I just want to reblog this with @foundlingmother’s tags, because the comparison they make to Thor’s accidental culpability for the events of TDW is… a really good point, actually.
Was Thor: Ragnarok considered a “good” movie for the same reasons Venom was considered a “bad” movie?
I’ve been thinking a lot about this. Thor and Eddie are like equal opposites. Both white male protagonists that can fight with super strength, but they differ in every other way, especially in how they treat others (in that specific film).
Eddie treats others with respect and compassion, he listens, he does not expect any sort of automatic deference from others. He bonds with a weird slime alien, and that love is what wins the day.
In Thor: Ragnarok, Thor is the complete opposite. He is callous and cruel, refuses to listen and instead insists that his perception is the correct one, and becomes angry when others do not immediately tie themselves to him and his goals. Thor beats his own brother into submission rather than trying to understand or listen to him. When Thor is not strong enough to destroy the “bad guy”, he destroys his entire realm to kill the “bad guy”. The day is won by an obscene amount of destruction.
Thor: Ragnarok was met with high praise from the critics. Venom was dubbed a terrible movie. Are these markedly different receptions indicative of what personality mainstream audiences want to see in their male heroes?
Sensitivity and compassion are not traits associated with western masculinity. In fact, they are often interpreted as a weakness. So, it makes sense that western audiences would perceive Thor’s callousness and general disregard for the feelings of others as a strength.
People want to watch movies that reinforce their existing views. When those views are challenged, they react negatively. Which explains the unfavorable reviews for Venom. The subconscious expectation was that Eddie would overcome Venom through brute force. The actual outcome left people confuzzled.
Odin pitting his sons against one another from an early age.
As a parent, I find this scene particularly disturbing. They both know Thor is older and that Thor will be king. Why even tell Loki that he was born to be a king? What is the point of that?
You know what else is important to notice about this scene, and which only further exposes the stupidity and purposeful ignorance of Taika Waititi regarding the Thor films, is that in this scene, if you compare the expressions on Thor’s face and Loki’s face, in Thor you see an extremely confident, even arrogant young boy, totally sure of himself and his place, and in Loki you see a young boy not at all sure of himself, looking up at Odin with an almost pleading, longing expression, as if seeking reassurance. It’s plain as day from this one scene alone which of the two brothers experienced from an early age popularity and confidence and security, and which felt like the outcast, unsure and even insecure. Yet TW was going to have a scene in Ragnarok which showed Thor as the bullied child and Loki as the mean bully. What an idiot.
That’s too charitable tbh. I think he’s not an idiot, it’s a deliberate choice on his part to make Loki look as bad as possible, and he thinks reversing the brothers’ role in childhood is the way to achieve that.
TR reversed many things about their characters to try to siphon the audiences interest off of Loki and paste it onto Thor. It didn’t work for the people who pay attention. This coming from someone who really liked and had high hopes for Thor.
At the end of the day, Thor needs to gain emotional-intelligence and individuality in order to grow and become really interesting. He just doesn’t ever get that. So he remains shallow as hell and I remain frustrated and disappointed. Loki got sabotaged for nothing.
Odin didn’t choose Thor to be king because Thor was Asgardian and Loki was secretly a Frost Giant
Odin chose Thor to be king because he didn’t see a lot of himself in Thor
And saw waaaaaaay too much of himself in Loki
Like
There’s a reason why the first thing Hela says to these two is the same thing Loki says when he tries to conquer earth
Odin was an asshole to the nine realms out of a belief that Asgardians were better and even when he stopped his warmongering he still thought Asgard was more important than the other realms
And Loki learned the Worst Possible Lessons from him. Not as bad as Hela given that Loki at least turned away from the whole “Being an heir to the throne of Asgard gives me the right to Do What I Want” thing in this film and Infinity War but still
Do you ever think Loki purposefully learnt all this to try and impress Odin? Like he just wants his Dad to love him so he creates himself in his Dad’s image thinking that’s what Odin wants.
Absolutely!
And his resentment of Thor is down to the fact that he can’t understand why Odin prefers this guy whose just a big weird puppy dog who wants to have adventures and fight evil because Loki doesn’t know about Odin’s messed up past any more than Thor does
It also makes Odin’s anger at Thor in the first movie take on a whole new meaning as well…he’s not just pissed at Thor because his actions were foolish and headstrong he’s pissed because Thor did exactly what he used to do, invaded another world and caused trouble because he was sure what he was doing was right and they were wrong
When Odin calls Thor “Vain” with such venom in his voice in that film he’s not just pissed at Thor he’s remembering all the shit he did as well and dreading the thought of it all happening all over again if he doesn’t do something to teach Thor a bit of humility
It makes the second movie that much better as well because what the Dark Elves did wasn’t that far off from what Odin did, but then you can see that he still has a trace of the Asgardian Superiority complex with how he treats Jane.
INDEED
And yeah I kind of wonder if maybe Asgard didn’t start the issues with the Dark Elves we saw come to fruition in this film now that we know what we know
First, Thor in Thor isn’t “…just a big weird puppy dog who wants to have adventures and fight evil….” Thor in Thor flips a table because his “day of triumph” was ruined. The first scene we see with Thor is him, not Loki, stating he will be king and fantasizing about destroying an entire race. We are not meant to believe that Thor’s behavior in Thor is a sudden upset following his failed coronation. We’re meant to perceive that Thor’s always been bold, entitled, reckless, and warmongering (and racist), though there’s a glimpse of a good heart–of the hero he will become–beneath that.
Second, Loki does attempt to emulate Odin and Thor’s behaviors, believing they will earn him the recognition and love he craves. For instance, he attacks Jotunheim in such a way that he would accomplish Thor’s goal (destroying the race), which Odin never condemned, without bringing full on war to Asgard, which Odin did condemn. Loki does resent that Odin favors Thor. However, due to the above truths about Thor’s character pre-Thor, its not for the reasons describe in this post. Loki’s positioned as the level-headed, diplomatic brother, who’s a bit mischievous/manipulative on the side. Odin, unless he’s fucking monumentally stupid, should be much more concerned about pre-Thor Thor’s personality, rather than pre-Thor Loki’s. Pre-Thor Thor’s way more similar to Hela-era Odin.
Third, no. No. Odin does not favor Thor because he’s not like Odin. He doesn’t look at Thor and think, “Asgard needs a better king than I, and Thor’s that king.” No. He never tells Thor anything, he yells at Thor whenever Thor questions him, he forces Thor to act the way he expects Thor to, he calls Thor’s love interest a goat (not strictly relevant, but I figured I’d remind people he’s racist af), and he sends guards authorized to use whatever force necessary to prevent Thor from doing something about the conflict with the Dark Elves (after shutting down Thor’s attempts to rationally discuss the problem). None of this suggests he values Thor’s ideas, or principles, etc. where they differ from Odin’s own. I’m sorry, I just don’t buy that Odin knows Thor will be a better king for Asgard, yet refuses to treat Thor like an equal or hear Thor’s input at any point in the films. Odin refuses to confront his own faults, to the point that he dooms Asgard rather than admit that he fucked up in the past. He covers over the history and keeps the spoils of war. No, Odin doesn’t realize he’s wrong or bad. He doesn’t fear seeing himself in his children. He fears seeing individuals. He fears not being able to control his children. That’s why Hela had to go. That’s why Loki had to go. He couldn’t control them.
I feel like now would be a good time to remind everyone that in the junior novelization of Thor (2011), Odin openly expresses doubt BEFORE the coronation about Thor’s readiness to take on the responsibility of his title. And Frigga’s words of reassurance to him come in the form of reminding Odin that Thor will have Loki to help him.
One might ask themselves, if Odin and Frigga trust Loki’s judgment so much more than they do Thor’s–as this scene would appear to suggest–why not simply make Loki king instead? Perhaps it has something to do with the order of inheritance, Thor being their firstborn and all. But if it did, Odin was needlessly cruel in setting up this “only one of you can be king” game we see with young Thor and young Loki at the beginning of the film. What other circumstances might give Odin pause at the idea of naming Loki his heir? 🤔 Truly, a mystery for the ages. I feel blue just thinking about it.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa, hold up just a damn minute, you little punk. What exactly is the big difference between what you did on Jötunheim and what Loki did on Midgard? ‘Cause I’m pretty sure it’s not the body count.
Next time someone says Thor learned his lesson and changed his ways, I want them to come justify this BS to me.
that first gif…. this is absolutely not the first time Thor has started to, or has, beat up Loki
And look at Loki’s face. He almost wants Thor to do it, to carry out that violence. Perhaps because he’s become accustomed to being beaten on or because one pain is a great distraction from another pain.
To me, that expression is one of like, “well? get it over with.” Like Loki had so expected that punch in the face that he didn’t know what to do when Thor stopped himself. That’s the reaction of someone who’s been chronically beaten on.
And then Thor has the freaking audacity to follow that up by saying he wishes he could trust Loki. 🙄
I have to disagree with ya’ll. Again, you don’t seem to understand that their culture is fundamentally different from ours. In a way we can never begin to understand.
They live by a “blood for blood” and “I shall strike vengeance in thy name” and “suffering must be exacted for suffering of the dead” and honor and remembering the dead culture. What’s going on here is that Thor is angry and in pain and frustrated. Loki is angry and in pain and frustrated. Thor almost takes his anger out on his brother but stops because he knows that Loki is not the person he should be angry at here.
Loki, meanwhile, is suffering from a guilt complex. A “if I hadn’t behaved like an ass I wouldn’t be in that cell and I wouldn’t have been far away from mother and I could’ve saved her” thought-process. He’s blaming himself. A fact that is shown by how demolished his cell was when Thor came. How ripped his clothes were, how he was bleeding, his hair torn.
He’s exacting revenge for Frigga’s death on himself, because he’s blaming himself as that’s all he has to blame, while Thor blames Malekith because Thor saw that Malekith was responsible. So when Loki sees Thor about to hit him it’s not “because he gets hit a lot” or some other stupidity, it’s because he’s thinking “I deserve this for letting her die, bring this, I want to be in pain like she was, like how my soul feels, MAKE ME HURT physically as well as spiritually!”
He’s angry and shocked that Thor stopped because if it was the other way around, he wouldn’t havestopped. He wouldn’t have wanted to stop so he’s surprised that Thor can control his anger/pain and think rationally.
In that scene Loki wants to beat the shit out of Thor just as much as Thor wants to go at him for being flippant and sarcastic (Loki’s mechanism for dealing with his hurts publically). There’s no one-sided abuse here, no one person expecting to be hit and not fight back or one person just waiting to be abused so it can “get over”. Again, Loki’s response IS ABSOLUTELY NOT reacting to abuse or whatever you guys think (I am so sick of hearing that, it’s just not true) his response is because his culture is “blood calls for blood” and in Loki’s mind he is the one who killed his mother by not being free to protect her. He thinks that if he had been free he could’ve stopped her death, which is why he’s says at the end “I didn’t do it for him” Loki allowed himself to die because he is answering the “blood for blood” law of their culture as he sees it in his mind.
A life for a life; he killed Frigga by not being free, so he will die for her honor.
It’s nothing to do with abuse. Stop saying that.
And Thor has every right to say “I wish I could trust you”. Because he can’t trust Loki. I don’t understand why that’s a problem? Loki’s proved that he’s unreliable, that even when he has opportunity to say his piece he doesn’t, that he won’t. When he had the opportunity to be heard by Odin he acted like a prick. So I don’t know why ya’ll always act like it’s everyone else’s fault and not maybe the other characters just responding to how Loki acts? It’s always everyone else’s fault but you guys never look to Loki as the one who could put people on defense (which he does constantly), engendering animosity by his hostile/flippant/sarcastic/indifferent/rude attitude.
Certain religious sects have a different culture from secular society.
Does that mean that abuse isn’t abuse when they do it?
that first gif…. this is absolutely not the first time Thor has started to, or has, beat up Loki
And look at Loki’s face. He almost wants Thor to do it, to carry out that violence. Perhaps because he’s become accustomed to being beaten on or because one pain is a great distraction from another pain.
To me, that expression is one of like, “well? get it over with.” Like Loki had so expected that punch in the face that he didn’t know what to do when Thor stopped himself. That’s the reaction of someone who’s been chronically beaten on.
And then Thor has the freaking audacity to follow that up by saying he wishes he could trust Loki. 🙄
When we meet Thor and Loki in Thor (2011), Loki is the cool and collected one and Thor is the maniac who is ready to murder the shit out of anyone who looks at him wrong. This has distinctly not been their dynamic for Thor’s whole life.
How one stupid ass story that Chris made up turns canon and now all Loki is known for is stabbing people his entire life.
*describe Thor and Loki’s dynamic with a single gif*
There, I fixed it.
Thank god someone fixed it
Thank you for fixing this
Thanks for fixing it.
If anyone delights in death and destruction, it’s Thor. Loki was characterized as being non-violent in the original film, which is out of the norm for a male in his society and why he was considered different and strange. Can we please start tacking the word “murder” onto all of Thor’s actions and possessions too?
Oh look, there’s Thor trying to MURDER Loki with his MURDER HAMMER.
I can’t wait to see who he MURDERS with Stormbreaker.
Contrary to popular opinion, I didn’t like it at all. Here is why. I didn’t really want to make a post about it, but it’s been 2 months now and I still can’t get over it. So better to just get it out of my system at once. Because
Please do not read if you are among the 100% population who loved it. Spoilers for Thor Ragnarok.
Hello everyone! I have thoughts on the original post, read or don’t, cool with me.
Thor has spent his entire life (about 1500 years) in the spotlight where he must act proper and stuff. The last 2 years, he has been in space, alone, looking for infinity stones. I dare you to spend that much time alone and see what crazy ass person you become. 2 years before that, he was living on Earth, so that’s 4 years where he doesnt have to be proper and royal. Thor’s personality transformation is 100% believeable when you think about all the quips he’s been around from the avengers and humans as a whole dating Jane. Also, have you ever been friends with somone for over 6 months? You start to take on their mannerisms. They even say it in their “article”, “Thor makes jokes in avengers 2”.
So when you say “that’s not my Thor”. I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about considering this is the same guy as before but he’s gone insane from years of being alone and years of dealing with humans.
1. 1500 yrs > 2 yrs (basic math) 2. FUNNY how the supposed “craziness” is seen only in the constant quips he now makes and nothing else. So his 2 yrs on his own just made him a Waititi-esque quippy idiot without any of the actual crazy mannerisms someone in those circumstances should have. 3. Avengers2 happens after those 2 yrs of living on Earth and absorbing everyone’s personality – and I distinctly remember that he wasn’t a cheap Tony rip off in it. 4. I just said in my “article” that his attempt of joking with Natasha was seen as odd – how it should be. Unlike Thor3. Did you even read/understand?
“2 yrs on his own” is not a good enough excuse to annihilate every single aspect of his personality and turning him into the director’s wet dream.
Ofc you think it is and also ‘100% believable’. But
– Guys, I said in my OP to NOT read if you loved the movie. Because I don’t want to start a debate or convert your opinion. I’m just screaming in the void – what I thought blogs are for.
And still I get this. How hard is it to just scroll past. Ugh.
are you loki, god of knives? 🗡🙄 
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